Law/Legal

Students support tribal nation justice reform in new Mason law program

Mariam Aburdeineh — Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:58:32 +0000

Students support tribal nation justice reform in new Mason law program Mariam Aburdeineh Wed, 03/23/2022 - 13:58

Adam Crepelle had just started law school at the time of the 2010 BP Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico. As a citizen of the United Houma Nation, a historic Native American tribe, Crepelle felt that the consequences of the spill hit home hard.

“The Houma were getting spilled on quite heavily by BP, and everyone in Louisiana was getting BP money, except the Houma Indians,” he said. “I assumed my professors would know how to solve this problem—but I quickly realized none of my professors knew anything about Indian law, and I couldn’t find anyone who practiced Indian law in Louisiana either.”

Crepelle took it upon himself to start learning Indian law, he said, and published widely on the subject. Now the assistant professor of law at ��AV is also the director of Mason’s new Tribal Law and Economics Program (TLEP), which includes a federal Indian Law course and the Tribal Sovereignty Clinic, where students work directly with tribes.

Adam Crepelle is assistant professor of law and director of Mason’s new Tribal Law and Economics Program. Photo by Ron Aira/Creative Services/��AV

What is Indian Law?

“Tribes are separate sovereigns in the U.S. Constitutional order,” said Crepelle, who serves as an associate justice on the Pascua Yaqui Tribe’s Court of Appeals. “You have the federal government, state governments, and Indian Tribes.”

Because the 574 federally recognized tribes are sovereign governments, the presumption is state law does not apply on reservations, Crepelle said.

It’s a clash over who governs Indian lands, he said.

For example, according to Indian law, to arrest someone you must determine whether the victim and perpetrator are Indians, assess the type of crime, and the status of the land.

“This causes lots of public safety issues because nobody knows who can arrest who,” Crepelle said. “Law and economics study institutions and their efficiency…[the work of TLEP] is important because federal Indian law is anything but efficient.”

Working with Tribes

“Students benefit by being a part of this clinic because they get to work with tribes and implement policies that make a change in the real world,” Crepelle said. “They’re actually helping build institutions, writing laws for a sovereign nation.”

Eight students are enrolled in the clinic this semester, Crepelle said, with many working on projects related to tribal court development.

One project aims to implement the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA).

“The general rule is if a non-Indian beats his Indian wife on a reservation, the tribe can’t do anything about it,” Crepelle said. “By implementing [VAWA], now the tribe can prosecute him for domestic violence.”

“For too long [Indian nations] have been locked out, in many ways, from the opportunities and outcomes afforded to the broader U.S. population,” said Michael B. Miley, a third-year student from Vermont. “Federal Indian Law is an important and enlightening class because it precisely elucidated the myriad ways we have arrived at our current status quo.”

“Armed with this knowledge, students…are able to better meet, analyze, and resolve specific legal challenges that Indian tribes and tribal governments confront today,” Miley said.

It’s a unique opportunity for everyone involved.

“When else is a law student going to get an opportunity to write a code of civil procedure that will actually go into effect and see real cases?” said James Gray, a second-year law student who’s drafting code for an Intertribal Commercial Court about on-reservation investments and commercial disputes.

It’s more than a class assignment; it’s a responsibility.

“Mistakes could negatively impact the tribes and businesses conducting cases in the court,” said Gray, who is working with a judge from the Tunica-Biloxi tribe.

Gray said helping tribes use their sovereignty to advance their economies has been rewarding. He has also enjoyed learning from guest speakers, from tribal council members to Indian Law practitioners to former Senate advisors on Indian affairs.

“The Tribal Law and Economics Program is a really exciting opportunity for the school to grow into a field that law schools have under-invested in,” Gray said. “I think there's lots of room to make rapid progress.”

Topics

Tribal Law and Economics Program

Native American

American Indian

experiential learning

Tribal Sovereignty Clinic

Amazon donates $25,000 to M-VETS capital campaign to expand pro bono legal services

John Hollis — Mon, 15 Nov 2021 16:06:34 +0000

Amazon donates $25,000 to M-VETS capital campaign to expand pro bono legal services John Hollis Mon, 11/15/2021 - 11:06

With its arrival in Arlington, Amazon has established itself as a significant community partner and continued to strengthen those ties this month by making a donation to the Mason Veterans and Servicemembers Legal Clinic (“M-VETS”) at the ��AV Antonin Scalia Law School. The funding will help support a third attorney position, greatly expanding M-VETS’ ability to provide legal support to the local veteran community.

In an effort to assist a greater number of veterans and to expand its scope of services, M-VETS has partnered with American Legion Post 139 to provide free legal services in the newly renovated Post headquarters housed in the Lucille and Bruce Terwilliger Place, an affordable housing complex spearheaded by the Arlington Partnership for Affordable Housing set to open in 2022. Not only will Terwilliger Place be home to the new Post 139 headquarters, but, of the 160 units of affordable housing, 50% will have a veterans preference, providing critical housing and resources to local veterans.

In order to staff the new M-VETS outpost co-located in the American Legion’s new headquarters, M-VETS is leading a capital campaign to hire a third staff attorney dedicated to providing walk-in legal services, direct representation in new practice areas, and supervision of law students in these matters. Amazon’s contribution will be earmarked to fund the third attorney position. With the addition of a third attorney and expansion of practice areas, M-VETS anticipates that it will be able to increase its output of pro bono services by nearly 40 percent.

“With Amazon’s generosity, we have taken a significant step in continuing our mission to fund the third staff attorney position,” M-VETS Director Timothy MacArthur said. “We are extremely grateful to Amazon for its support of our clinic operations and look forward to continuing our partnership with our new Arlington neighbor.”

MacArthur emphasized the importance of being able to expand practice areas and provide walk-in legal services at the American Legion Post 139 Headquarters. “Expanding into the areas of criminal law and employment matters will enable us to assist a greater number of veterans and service members in the community,” MacArthur said. “In addition, our ability to offer walk-in legal counseling will provide an immediate impact the local military community.”

M-VETS provides free legal representation to veterans, active-duty service members, and their families while allowing law students to gain practical legal experience under the supervision of practicing attorneys. M-VETS provides representation in a variety of matters including Virginia civil litigation matters, uncontested divorces, consumer protection matters, wills and powers of attorney, as well as assisting with matters before the VA and various administrative boards, including discharge upgrades, record corrections, military pay and entitlement matters, and VA disability benefit appeals.

Topics

Campus News

Veterans

Amazon

New dean ready to elevate the law school through innovation, supporting students

Mariam Aburdeineh — Mon, 07 Dec 2020 05:00:00 +0000

New dean ready to elevate the law school through innovation, supporting students Mariam Aburdeineh Mon, 12/07/2020 - 00:00

Ken Randall, Dean of Scalia Law School. Photo by John Boal.

Kenneth Randall has an impressive track record when it comes to using innovation to transform academia. The new dean of ��AV’s Antonin Scalia Law School said it all started from humble beginnings.

“We were a blue-collar family, and I first saw lawyers on TV,” said Randall, who started at Mason on Dec. 1. “Lawyers were people who could make a difference and could make an impact and could help others.”

Aspiring to have a similar impact, Randall became a first-generation lawyer—something he couldn’t have done, he said, without the support of teachers and mentors. That’s one reason he’s passionate about academia.

“I love working in education because of the students,” he said. “I am a teacher at heart.”

Prior to coming to Mason, Randall served for two decades as law dean at the University of Alabama. Under his leadership, Alabama’s U.S. News & World Report law ranking leapt from No. 96 to 21.

In addition to being named one of legal education’s most transformative deans of the last decade by Leiter’s Law School Reports, Randall is a successful entrepreneur. In 2013, he founded iLaw Ventures Distance Learning, which has become an industry leader, partnering with 25% of law schools nationwide. He holds doctoral and master’s degrees in international law from Columbia University, a master’s in law from Yale, and a juris doctor from Hofstra.

Randall spoke recently from his home office over Zoom.

What drew you to Mason?

It’s a great university with an energetic new president with a successful track record at other fine schools. I do relate to a student body that has a lot of first-generation students. It has what I consider to be a top 20 faculty and a top 20 student body. The law school is distinguished by having academic centers, and several of them are the best, not only in the country, but in the world. It’s the best law and economics and antitrust law school anywhere. I like what’s happening in Arlington. With Amazon having its headquarters there, I think there’s real potential for interdisciplinary growth.

In my many trips to Mason, whether giving a talk, attending a conference, or interviewing, it felt right. I am really excited and honored to be at Mason.

What is your vision for the law school?

During COVID, our primary goals are to be sure the institution is stable and that we’re taking care of students, faculty and staff in their health, education and welfare.

One of the things that we’ll be working on is to have the law school recognized for what it really is—a top 25 law school.

How will diversity play a role in the strategic plan?

It will be significant, and to start, there are three initiatives:

First, we are initiating enrollment-pipelining programs with [historically Black colleges and universities] in the commonwealth.

Second, we have another program in place to help pipeline Mason undergraduates into law school. Mason has many first-generation students.

Third, we’ll be expanding the part-time evening program to increase inclusive opportunities. We’re going to use technology to make legal education more accessible for nontraditional and adult students. We’ll have a program starting in Fall 2021 that allows students to come to the law school just two nights a week.

You were named one of legal education’s most transformative deans. What is the key to such success and how do you see that coming into play at Mason?

That was a full team effort. Critical components of the success involved using technology, being innovative, being entrepreneurial, [and] taking some best business practices and applying them in an academic setting. For example, we were one of the pioneers in online programming. That provided resources that we wouldn’t have had to provide to faculty, staff and student initiatives, and gave more scholarships to students. We prioritized diversity at my previous school.

What advice do you have for aspiring lawyers?

Remember that ultimately the law is a service profession. It’s about how do we help the client. Ethics in law is absolutely critical. Students need to keep professionalism and ethics in the front and center of everything they do. They need to focus on long-term objectives.

Skills helping clients with counseling, strategy and problem solving will make a great lawyer in the 2020s.

law

Faculty/Staff Announcements

Faculty and Staff News

Rosanne Cash speaks to Mason law students about music, intellectual property

Mariam Aburdeineh — Fri, 11 Sep 2020 05:00:00 +0000

Rosanne Cash speaks to Mason law students about music, intellectual property Mariam Aburdeineh Fri, 09/11/2020 - 01:00

Acclaimed Grammy-winning singer/songwriter, author and advocate Rosanne Cash spoke with students at ��AV’s Antonin Scalia Law School during an online intellectual property conference held on Sept. 10.

Cash was the keynote speaker for the three-day Evolving Music Ecosystem conference, hosted by the school’s Center for the Protection of Intellectual Property (CPIP). She spoke on artistic copyrights, fair pay and support for artists, First Amendment rights, artist struggles during the pandemic, the artistic process, and memories of her father, Johnny Cash.

Grammy-winning singer/songwriter Rosanne Cash speaks with Mason law students over Zoom about music and intellectual property.

“Having the chance to listen to Ms. Cash share her insight regarding the music industry was a unique opportunity and a great experience,” said second-year law student Austin Shaffer. “She really put things into perspective by talking through her own personal music ecosystem and how many people are working behind the scenes to create the product that ultimately reaches consumers.”

“I never look at it as being all about me,” Cash said. “It’s about providing work for each other in this ecosystem.”

Sandra Aistars, director of copyright research and policy at CPIP, moderated the Q&A session. She said she hopes attendees recognize the value creative ecosystems bring to the community and that they’ll work to foster those ecosystems for everyone’s benefit.

“Mason students in multiple disciplines can learn from [Cash’s] experiences as a creator, business person and policy advocate,” Aistars said. “Her writing practices, whether applied to lyrics or prose, can teach us all to be ruthless editors of our own work; and the discipline, dedication and fearlessness she lives her life with is worth modeling at any stage in one’s career.”

“Musicians are in a service industry,” Cash said. “We service the heart and the soul.”

Rosanne Cash strums her custom Martin guitar for Mason students during the keynote session.

“Songs are really critical right now,” she added, noting that music that seems complex or includes unexpected lyrics serves a purpose. “This is what art is about, partly to make you uncomfortable, and make you think, but also to arouse your feelings.”

Cash also recognizes her role as an advocate for fellow artists.

“I consider myself part of a chain of what came before and the next generation of musicians,” Cash said, expressing her concern for supporting legacy artists and those just starting out.

Students said hearing from Cash was an experience they will not forget.

“[Cash] really reaffirmed my decision to study law and be an advocate for these exact issues,” second-year law student J. David Ward said.

“Since the pandemic has tremendously changed the economic and creative landscape for many artists, it was important to hear from a real artist about the struggles artists are going through and how we can all support the artistic community,” said LLM student Yumi Oda.

The entire conference has been worthwhile, the students agreed.

“Each panelist is a well-respected expert that provides invaluable insight into the topic at hand,” Shaffer said. “The fact that Scalia Law offers these types of opportunities is one that I don’t take for granted.”

From left to right: Rosanne Cash, Sandra Aistars.

*This conference continued a dialogue on music ecosystems begun by CPIP Executive Director Sean O’Connor while at the University of Washington School of Law in Seattle. In its inaugural year in the Washington, D.C. area, the conference aimed to bring together musicians, music fans, lawyers, artist advocates, business leaders, government policymakers, and anyone interested in supporting thriving music ecosystems in the United States and beyond. The conference is also a companion to The Oxford Handbook on Music Law and Policy, which is edited by O’Connor.

Center for the Protection of Intellectual Property (CPIP)

Germany’s ruling on stimulus support during COVID-19 could fracture the Eurozone and the European Union, Mason professor says

Mariam Aburdeineh — Thu, 21 May 2020 03:00:00 +0000

Germany’s ruling on stimulus support during COVID-19 could fracture the Eurozone and the European Union, Mason professor says Mariam Aburdeineh Wed, 05/20/2020 - 23:00

Topics

Covid-19

Tip Sheet

Alumni share memories of Original Building, as innovation escalates on Arlington Campus

Mariam Aburdeineh — Thu, 27 Feb 2020 05:00:00 +0000

Alumni share memories of Original Building, as innovation escalates on Arlington Campus Mariam Aburdeineh Thu, 02/27/2020 - 00:00

Law students ride the escalator in the original building, 1983. Photo from "By-George," ��AV Yearbook.

Many people are familiar with ��AV’s Arlington Campus, but fewer know its unique history, including how it became the only law school with an escalator when the university moved into the old Kann’s department store in the early 1970s.

The Original Building will soon be coming down to make way for an innovative new space. Students will still rise to new levels—sans the physical escalator—at Mason’s new School of Computing and Institute for Digital InnovAtion. Mason already produces the most tech talent of any university in Virginia, and with the commonwealth’s recent commitment to Mason of $235 million as part of the Tech Talent Investment Program, the number of graduates in computer-related fields who will support the region’s digital economy will only grow stronger.

Before saying hello to the highly anticipated space, we asked alumni to take us on a stroll down memory lane and share their memories of the Original Building:

Students study in the library in Arlington in 1981. Photo from ��AV yearbook.

Law & Love

“I grew up in Arlington so I remember shopping at Kann’s with my mother and being excited to ride the escalator. My husband (William Brewer) and I met during law school when we worked on the ‘Urge to Merge’ campaign to convert the International School of Law into a state school as part of ��AV. We were part of an active group of students lobbying the Virginia legislature and working closely with Til Hazel to make the dream come true. One evening when Bill and I were taking a study break in an open area on the second floor of the building, he asked me to marry him. We were married during our third year of law school. We graduated from GMU School of Law in 1980, having taken all our courses in the old Kann’s department store building. After graduation, we moved to Morgantown, West Virginia, where we have had successful and active law practices and raised our family. Little did I know when I started law school that the Kann’s building would help chart out the rest of my life for me!”

— Susan (Slenker) Brewer, JD ’80

John T. “Til” Hazel and students in front of the ��AV School of Law, July 31, 1987.

Bright Futures

“As a 1990 graduate of the law school and someone who has the opportunity to visit the existing structure from time to time, I know that the expansion will only serve to stamp the Arlington Campus as a go-to spot for future lawyers, innovators and public policy wonks.”

“It was definitely interesting and memorable to have attended law school over four years at night in the old department store.

“Truth be told, you kind of forgot what the physical plant was once you had to opportunity to interact and learn from incredible legal minds, both as professors and fellow classmates. I am definitely proud of my degree from the Scalia Law School, nee ��AV School of Law, and am excited about the direction the school has taken since my graduation and wouldn’t trade those years for anything.”

—Jeff Kramer, JD ’90

Students study in the law school library in 1981. Photo from ��AV yearbook.

Shadow of Segregation

“As one who would later go on to practice civil rights law, I distinctly remember on the bottom floor there being two men’s and two women’s rooms, all right next to one another; a constant reminder of how far we had come as a nation, and the gravity of the endeavor we had undertaken.”

—Mark D. Dix, JD ’98

Metro escalator, 1981. Photo from ��AV yearbook.

Monkeying Around

“All of my classes were in the Original Building, the former Kann’s department store. It was full circle for me.

“I grew up near Merrifield and my mom used to take me to Kann’s on a regular basis to buy two things, which apparently were only available at Kann’s. The first was Cub Scout uniforms. The second was Stride Rite shoes. So why does that third-grader remember this 49 years later? Because the Kann’s shoe department was unique. The second floor shoe department (yes, up the same escalator) boasted a large glass window cage/display with live spider monkeys. Whenever I’d complain about making the trek, I’d be reminded of the opportunity to see the monkeys.

“Little did I know that 25 years later I’d be back at Kann’s for a different purpose.”

— Steve Andersen, ’97

Securing a Law School

“I understood at the time, circa 1982, that the Kann building was leased, with an option to buy. Dean Ralph Norvell reached out to his former student Joseph Allbritton to sign and guarantee the note that purchased the Kann Building, whose property included the space upon which the later and current law school was built. The deal with Virginia provided that the state would get ownership of the Kann building property for one dollar, and in turn, Virginia would finance the yearly operation of the law school.

“During law school I got acquainted with an administrative clerk at the Supreme Court of the United States. He worked a second job at the library. On his own initiative, he invited me to visit him at the Supreme Court. … [I also remember] that the then-sitting Justice Lewis F. Powell Jr. came to the law school for a ceremony that started a Phi Delta Phi fraternity chapter in his name.”

—James R. Becker, JD ’82

Dean Ralph Novell stands at the north side of the ��AV School of Law shortly after the building was acquired by the university in the late 1970s. Photo by ��AV.

A Strange But Compelling Link

“I have many vivid memories of the old Kann’s department store, having been a small child growing up in the ‘60s in the Clarendon section of Arlington County. I used to ride my wagon, and then bike, all around the parking lots of the Virginia Square Shopping Center. There was a Woolworth’s 5 & 10 right across the green from Kann’s, and a People’s Drug Store on the corner. These were magical places for an eight-year-old, especially at Christmas time! I remember being so surprised when Kann’s became a law school for a local university, and even more surprised when I graduated from that same university several years later. The law school building is a strange but compelling link to different periods of my life, and one I will always remember with great fondness.”

—Bill Pittman, BS Business Administration ’80

Mason law classroom in 1980. Photo from ��AV yearbook.

Floored With Memories

“I was a student at the law school from 1980 to 1983 in the old Kann’s Department Store. My first year the school only occupied two floors of the building. We did not realize there was a third floor to the building until they ripped down the wall board around the escalator going up there in the spring of that year. The paging system of the department store was still in use when I was a student to page the maintenance staff when needed.

“My graduation in 1983 was held in the large open area of the second floor of the building.”

—Judy Drazen Schretter, JD ’83

Institute for Digital InnovAtion (IDIA)

School of Computing

Campus News

Using public funds for religious schools is permissible under law, but it would have consequences, Mason expert says

Mariam Aburdeineh — Tue, 28 Jan 2020 05:00:00 +0000

Using public funds for religious schools is permissible under law, but it would have consequences, Mason expert says Mariam Aburdeineh Tue, 01/28/2020 - 00:00

Topics

Religion

Tip Sheet

A law clinic that helps students and entrepreneurs? Now that’s an innovative idea

Mariam Aburdeineh — Mon, 13 Jan 2020 09:00:00 +0000

A law clinic that helps students and entrepreneurs? Now that’s an innovative idea Mariam Aburdeineh Mon, 01/13/2020 - 04:00

What does it take to transform a cool idea into a business? Students at ��AV’s Antonin Scalia Law School are finding out, by helping real-life entrepreneurs in the school’s new Innovation Law Clinic.

“It’s all about the students,” said professor Sean O’Connor, executive director of the Center for the Protection of Intellectual Property, who leads the clinic. “Students take the first cut at talking with clients and take the lead on deliverables, such as forming a corporation, doing contracts or filing a patent application.”

Third year law students (left to right) Kayleen Hansen, Aris Hart, Samantha Levin, and Innovation Law Clinic professor Sean O’Connor discuss intellectual property law and strategic business plans for their client in the fashion industry. Photo by: Ron Aira/Creative Services

The first cohort includes third-year students Samantha Levin, Kayleen Hansen and Aris Hart, who have assisted a nonprofit working to get incorporated and gain tax-exempt status, a Mason student developing technology that may be patentable, and a fashion designer navigating the legal intricacies for branding her business.

“One reason I decided to go to law school was to take my interests and skills and direct them toward helping people—here we can help people be as successful as they can in their endeavors,” Levin said. “It’s been absolutely amazing to take what we’ve learned in classes and learned doctrinally and apply that to real-life practice, real-life clients, and help people in a way that lawyers can.”

No two ideas are alike, and the clinic capitalizes on this to advance students’ skillsets. As the students provide clients with resources, information and advice, they learn how to tailor the legal work to a client’s unique project.

“You do get a lot more hands-on interaction, and you’re getting practical experience that you may not otherwise get,” Hansen said. “Innovation and entrepreneurship are not necessarily the easiest areas to break into as a law student.”

That’s one of the biggest draws of the course, Hart said.

“Jumping into the clinic is a great way to [enter this field of law] because you are able to do it under the supervision of an attorney and really get your feet wet in a way that is great for the client, because they get a free legal services, and it’s good for students because we get experience,” Hart said.

The clinic is often the first time that students start to grapple with the complexities of working with a real client, O’Connor said.

“In the clinic we give students a chance to start learning what they don’t know on the application side of things,” O’Connor said. “Law schools used to just teach theory, so students would get into law firms but feel like they had no idea what they’re doing—this attempts to close that gap.”

As the clinic progresses, O’Connor said he plans for other units across the university to be involved, and have the clinic serve the region’s innovation ecosystem.

“We’re hoping to provide a space for folks who don’t have the money to hire an attorney to receive support and advice,” he said, adding that entrepreneurs often run ahead and do things that cause legal problems later on. “We hope to have a lot more people succeed or fail on the merits of their idea, not because they made some misstep with a legal document.”

innovation

Innovation Law Clinic

Campus News

Law students advocate for immigrants in new litigation clinic

Mariam Aburdeineh — Thu, 14 Nov 2019 05:00:00 +0000

Law students advocate for immigrants in new litigation clinic Mariam Aburdeineh Thu, 11/14/2019 - 00:00

Six students at ��AV’s Antonin Scalia Law School are participating in the school’s new Immigration Litigation Clinic and advocating for clients facing a range of complex immigration proceedings.

“For the students, the goal is to teach them how to actually be an immigration litigator,” said Simon Sandoval-Moshenberg, co-professor of the year-long clinic with the Immigration Litigation Clinic’s director Becky Wolozin.

��AV Law Students and Immigration Law Clinic participants Liza Yang, Samanta Martinez-Villarreal, Emily Ahdieh, Alma Atassi, Emily Kvalheim, and Jack Goodman. Photo by Lathan Goumas/Office of Communications and Marketing.

On the legal services side, it also allows the Legal Aid Justice Center’s Immigrant Advocacy Program, where Sandoval-Moshenberg is legal director, to assist more people with the students’ work, he said.

In pairs, Mason students are assigned cases where they represent immigrant clients who need legal assistance. Working on asylum applications, completing legal research, gathering case evidence, attending dockets and representing clients at immigration court are all part of the experience.

This semester, third-year law students Samanta Martinez-Villarreal and Emily Ahdieh worked with a client who was detained in an immigration detention center, and are now working on an asylum application for another client. Other students are representing a woman in deportation proceedings who was the victim of human trafficking as a child, and they have prepared her asylum applications.

“It’s one thing to discuss policy and theory in a classroom, and it’s quite another to actually get up there and practice it,” said Martinez-Villarreal, who successfully got her client out on bond with Ahdieh. “We will debate policy all day in classes, but we have to keep in mind that there are actual people on the other side of those policies and they impact people in a real way.”

Law students Emily Ahdieh (right) and Samanta Martinez-Villarreal study in preparation to defend their client.

The most rewarding part of the clinic so far for Martinez-Villarreal is knowing she helped her client reunite with his family, she said.

“His life was determined by how well we did in five minutes [of arguing the case],” Martinez-Villarreal said.

But the outcomes of working on real cases isn’t always so fortunate, Sandoval-Moshenberg said.

“Inevitably we’re going to lose a bunch of cases and that’s part of the experience as well,” Sandoval-Moshenberg said.

Part of being a lawyer is that you go down a lot of dead ends, Sandoval-Moshenberg said, and that’s why working with clients gives students an even greater experience base than going through a mock trial that’s designed to be winnable.

The learning process itself is challenging, as immigration laws and enforcement rapidly change in the United States.

“Immigration in the past two and a half years has been probably the fastest changing area of practice that could possibly exist,” Sandoval-Moshenberg said, adding that it’s typical for students’ reading assignments to change daily as new policies take effect. “We’re really looking at the cutting edge [research] of the latest administration changes to asylum law.”

With all the challenges, the clinic gives students insight into what it actually takes to be an immigration lawyer.

“I thought it’d be interesting to do work on immigration because it is how I ended up here,” said Martinez-Villarreal, an Idaho native who said both her parents were immigrants from Mexico. “[The clinic] has taught me more and more about being an attorney, how court proceedings actually work, how to read the rules and figure out how each [part of the litigation process] works.”